2022 NBA Offseason Thread: Preseason kicks off; Things are fine in Los Angeles, Draymond beats the charges

[Vincent Van Goat]

well yah I get that, but if they don't bring extend him.

people are making it seem like it's a done deal no Draymond extension.

If money wasn't the issue, I think they'd work past the Poole thing

Wiggins staying on seems like the death blow though

Green himself wanting the max....

 

[pmatic]

well yah I get that, but if they don't bring extend him.

people are making it seem like it's a done deal no Draymond extension.

 

[Coupé It]

This is why the Warriors need to trade Draymond.

Get some assets back.

Plus no one is maxing Draymond. Those two words need to stop being in the same sentence

 

[RustyShackleford]

I missed anyone saying it's the only reason...but it is BY FAR the most important reason they are where they are. Everything starts w/ the core of Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green.

Dude your post pretty much said the only major break they had was Steph's extension and then proceeded to talk about their drafting. Then discussing how their actions post-drafting would have been replicated throughout most of the league. If you are saying there are more factors, fine I agree, but I made that assumption based on your argument that besides one bit of good fortune, success is based on drafting and making decisions that most owners would make.

Kevin Durant wanted to play w/ the Warriors...because of THAT core. I'm missing how building a team that players want to play for constitutes as a "break". Working out a sign and trade when he wanted to leave wasn't a break. The Nets had their incentive for why they wanted to do it also.

How Kevin Durant’s agreement to a sign-and-trade in 2019 benefited Warriors ... and Nets

The Warriors are in the NBA Finals, the Nets are not. And in a pre-Finals report on The Athletic, Tim Kawakami writes about how the Nets willingness to do a sign-and-trade at the time of The Clean...

www.netsdaily.com

I understand why Durant want to play with the Warriors, it was an attractive opportunity. I would give him an easier route to a championship. Durant wanted to play for the Suns with a strong core intact for the same reason.

But in the GSW's case Durant pulling the trigger on such a move was this fortunate for them. Durant still gets criticized for it to this day. That someone in their prime running to a championship contender from a championship contender was not the norm all things considered.

Also in the article....

“Brooklyn could’ve said no,” “Kevin could’ve said no. We’re thankful. It at least gave us a chance,” Myers told The Athletic reporter, a veteran of Bay Area basketball coverage. “Thankfully, we had some equity with Kevin and Rich (Kleiman), his agent,”

If it was purely a wise business decision, then I don't think the Warriors would be making these comments

Yes the sign and trade helped with the Nets long-term prospects but the Nets could have gotten it done without that, not like they were not used to making unwise moves, and KD was dictating the terms of the sign and trade too.

Something broke their way based on the decision of others. Sure there was an incentive for the other parties to do it, but for it to break their way multiple times seems like good fortune to me.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

As for Wiggins...we're certainly not about to re-write the book on him. His stock was very low when that trade was made. You referenced his numbers prior to joining GS that year and left out soooooo much context. This is why it's important to look beyond PPG, RPG, APG in a vacuum, because it excludes efficiency. What was supposed to be a fresh start after Jimmy Butler, started off well...and Andrew Wiggins was on FIRE to start the season. He then progressively got worse after the month of November and was getting booed at home.

Andrew Wiggins Game by Game Stats and Performance | ESPN

Latest on Golden State Warriors small forward Andrew Wiggins including complete game-by-game stats on ESPN

www.espn.com

The overwhelming consensus on here and in general was that Minnesota won that trade and Wiggins was one of the worst contracts in the league, if not THE worst. There certainly weren't teams lining up to trade for Andrew Wiggins. Extracting peak value out him enough to win a championship while revamping his image and reputation was certainly not luck or a break.

I didn't just cite his numbers though. I said people didn't want him at his price tag, and there were questions about his commitment

And in relation to Wiggins, I didn't claim that their getting the full potential out of him was luck or a break. Again, I openly cited Warriors player development, not just their drafting, as the reason for much of their success.

I said what I said because another person said that Wiggins was a player no one wanted. And I pointed out the Warriors got him as a downstream effect of the good fortunes of getting Durant, and then sign and trade when he left.

It was another Warriors fan that strip a ton of context from the pre-Warriors Wiggins situation the most.

 

[MVP]

Not really that far though

When you build the way they did, attracting a player like Durant is all connected

I'm not saying you're ignoring the Warriors' savvy moves/development, just pointing out the fact that a lot of dynasties are lucky. Luck is almost a must in these things

I think most Warriors fans will admit they had a lot of good fortune

At the same time many other orgs have also had great fortune and nothing's come of it

Why you going at the Clippers like this mayne?

 

[B Sox]

I feel like a 2 year extension of Draymond is a possibility. He’d come off the books as Kuminga and Moody would be up for their new deals.

Could always trade him in that second year too.

 

[MVP]

I'm sure OKC would have appreciated Kevin being so courteous to them in accommodating a S&T when he left there initially.

GS is the probably the best run organization in the league, but the cap spike initially and then them not losing KD for nothing are absolutely high on the list on why they've been able to sustain being a contender for this long. And are just factually not normal business operations in the NBA.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

Dude your post pretty much said the only major break they had was Steph's extension and then proceeded to talk about their drafting. Then discussing how their actions post-drafting would have been replicated throughout most of the league. If you are saying there are more factors, fine I agree, but I made that assumption based on your argument that besides one bit of good fortune, success is based on drafting and making decisions that most owners would make.




I understand why Durant want to play with the Warriors, it was an attractive opportunity. I would give him an easier route to a championship. Durant wanted to play for the Suns with a strong core intact for the same reason.

But in the GSW's case Durant pulling the trigger on such a move was this fortunate for them. Durant still gets criticized for it to this day. That someone in their prime running to a championship contender from a championship contender was not the norm all things considered.

Also in the article....



If it was purely a wise business decision, then I don't think the Warriors would be making these comments

Yes the sign and trade helped with the Nets long-term prospects but the Nets could have gotten it done without that, not like they were not used to making unwise moves, and KD was dictating the terms of the sign and trade too.

Something broke their way based on the decision of others. Sure there was an incentive for the other parties to do it, but for it to break their way multiple times seems like good fortune to me.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this.



I didn't just cite his numbers though. I said people didn't want him at his price tag, and there were questions about his commitment

And in relation to Wiggins, I didn't claim that their getting the full potential out of him was luck or a break. Again, I openly cited Warriors player development, not just their drafting, as the reason for much of their success.

I said what I said because another person said that Wiggins was a player no one wanted. And I pointed out the Warriors got him as a downstream effect of the good fortunes of getting Durant, and then sign and trade when he left.

It was another Warriors fan that strip a ton of context from the pre-Warriors Wiggins situation the most.

And what's false about that?

Who wanted Andrew Wiggins in 2019? Maybe I missed something...

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

I feel like a 2 year extension of Draymond is a possibility. He’d come off the books as Kuminga and Moody would be up for their new deals.

Could always trade him in that second year too.

What would that do to the payroll

I'm assuming they'd have to give Green a big number on top of it

 

[RustyShackleford]

i'm sure teams wanted wiggs' production but a lot of media called his 5years/$150 million an untradable "albatross" even with his 22/5/3.

That's what I said though...

"Wiggins was averaging 22/5/3 in Minny the season he got traded. People wanted him, maybe not for his full salary, but he was far from Russ. The main concern was not his skill, but his commitment and effort to getting better."

i don't like myself for appreciating a billionaire but props to Lacob for being willing to stay competitive at all costs, even if it meant dipping into the luxury tax to have a 15-win season followed by a loss in the play-in round.

it makes sense for warriors' fans to have a "made it out the mud" mentality. save for a few seasons, that franchise was a doormat for 40 consecutive years with frugal nickel and diming ownership. they became free agent destination because they drafted three future HoFers in almost successive drafts. Iggy was the first to know.

Any person that has been a Warriors fans for that long, I have no problem with them getting their Ja on and talking about the coming out of the trenches

Durant chose to go there, leaving a championship-level team, which seems to me fortunate for the Warriors. A unique salary cap jumps to facilitate it happening seems like good fortune to me as well.

I already said their drafting and player development are responsible for much of their success. Just seems like people want to imply that the only reason they landed KD.

I am sure it helped, I mean I even said the Warriors developed a championship situation, but all things considered, KD's decision was looked at as surprising.

if we could play revisionist history, say if the spurs hadn't drafted kawhi, would they have been similarly as active in the free agent/trade market to extend the duncan-manu-parker dynasty?

Ok fine, sure. I have no problem with that

I am a Lakers fan, and I have no problem admitting that the team got fortunate that the Orlando Magic owners were cheap idiots whose lowballing pushed Shaq out the door.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

I'm sure OKC would have appreciated Kevin being so courteous to them in accommodating a S&T when he left there initially.

GS is the probably the best run organization in the league, but the cap spike initially and then them not losing KD for nothing are absolutely high on the list on why they've been able to sustain being a contender for this long. And are just factually not normal business operations in the NBA.

A sign and trade for who???

Harrison Barnes?

 

[ill steelo]

well yah I get that, but if they don't bring extend him.

people are making it seem like it's a done deal no Draymond extension.

In all likelihood Dray’s next long-term contract will come from another team.

The only interesting aspect of it is the timing.

1) Warriors repeat & Dray opts in/out. Lacob could bite the bullet for 1 year and pay the $500M+ for a chance at a 3-peat & tying the Jordan Bulls next year.

There’s a LOT of money in accomplishing that.

2) The Warriors lose. Dray will 100% be traded in the off-season if he opts in, or won’t be retained if he opts out.

Regardless, his days are numbered & their playoff versatility defensively going forward will likely take a massive hit with him gone, so they’ll really need someone like Kuminga to start realizing some of that potential. Good luck with that.

 

[pmatic]

I felt the Warriors made out like bandits when the Wiggins-D'Lo trade happened. Were there actually people that favored that trade for the T'Wolves besides essential1 ?

 

[VARNELL HILL]

I felt the Warriors made out like bandits when the Wiggins-D'Lo trade happened. Were there actually people that favored that trade for the T'Wolves besides essential1 ?

***** please. You thought was he was going to lose his minutes to Eric freaking Pascall

THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP

niketalk.com

 

[B Sox]

What would that do to the payroll

I'm assuming they'd have to give Green a big number on top of it

I mean the payroll would be wild.

It’s an all-time legendary run you’re potentially keeping together though. Not sure how you place a value on that.

I just think it’s done if you don’t keep him around. You aren’t going to get a player that can replace what he does in a trade.

 

[MVP]

My Lakers are absolutely going to offer Draymond 3 years/60 mil next summer

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I hated wiggins, mostly because of his lack of patriotism.

but I also really hated the Dlo contract.

 

[smedroc]

We starting the season with well formed, coherent arguments instead of reckless slander??

 

[RustyShackleford]

And what's false about that?

Who wanted Andrew Wiggins in 2019? Maybe I missed something...

This is weird, so after telling me I am ignoring context, and me pointing out that you are kinda omitted part of my comment, because I definitely pointed out that Wiggins's price tag was an issue.

I said people didn't want him for the price. I don't know who wanted him with that contract. It seemed demand was extremely low to rock bottom with that price tag.

So does context matter or not?

Like if this is a way to say the Warriors took an expensive flyer on Wiggins then it goes to my points and Lacob being willing to spend and the Warriors having good player development. Again, my response to dude was how the Warriors were able to acquire him. Not like they signed mans with the MLE.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Initial reaction was that Wolves finally get their point guard with the bonus that he's friends with KAT

Also it was viewed as a win for them to at the same time get off Wiggins' deal plus they didn't give up that year's draft pick as well as didn't have to leave it unprotected

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This is why the Warriors need to trade Draymond.

Get some assets back.

Plus no one is maxing Draymond. Those two words need to stop being in the same sentence

That seems like a mistake.
Still think he's the best playoff defender in basketball.

 

[smedroc]

I hated wiggins, mostly because of his lack of patriotism.

but I also really hated the Dlo contract.

Thought you were aepps20 for a sec but then recalled he's Canadian

 

[RustyShackleford]

We starting the season with well formed, coherent arguments instead of reckless slander??

I respect VARNELL HILL alot, and all things considered he knows way more about basketball than me

Plus I have a feeling it gonna be a rough season for the Lakers and Suns so I'm trying to build up some credit with dude so I can have some peace in here when things go left.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

This is weird, so after telling me I am ignoring context, and me pointing out that you are kinda misrepresenting what I said by omission because I definitely pointed out that Wiggins's price tag was an issue.

I said people didn't want him for the price. I don't know who wanted him with that contract. It seemed demand was extremely low to rock bottom with that price tag.

So does context matter or not?

Like if this is a way to say the Warriors took an expensive flyer on Wiggins then it goes to my points and Lacob being willing to spend and the Warriors having good player development. Again, my response to dude was how the Warriors were able to acquire him. Not like they signed mans with the MLE.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

You doing way too much here. Let's just simplify this: You've asserted several times that "Andrew Wiggins was wanted....just not at his price tag".

I just want to know what you're basing this on. That's it.

 

[MVP]

Need that cap to jump next summer so the Show can go from 32 to 42 min in cap space.