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RustyShackleford

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I mean...let’s say 80 percent of what he says is great and you get motivated by it and do better. And you have the mind and common sense to disagree with the other. Should you get cancelled for it? Double standard with trump supporters who follow a clown that says 10 percent good stuff and 90 percent utter trans, homo, Islam, Jew phobic comments and ACTIONS with his laws
First if Trump and his supporters is the bar Farrakhan gotta jump over, that reflects poorly on Farrakhan and his supporters. Also, this argument that he is not in political power so his bigotry should matter less is exactly the same argument dwalk31 dwalk31 uses to excuse Trump's racism when he speaks on the Biden's role in the crime bill. So just like with Delk, I am not sympathetic to this argument. Yes Trump's bigotry is more dangerous, but at the end of the day Farrakhan is still a bigot too.

Second, I said nothing about cancelling Farrakhan. I understand why some black folk used to and still rock with him, but I am not one of them.Sure he makes some good points, but there are so much good information out there spread by so many people, I don't feel I need to check for dude generally, plus there are other problematic aspects with ole boy. To me, the juice isn't worth the squeeze when it comes to him.
 
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He could have gotten away with Farrakhan alone.
I don't think so.

The problem with the Nation of Islam is that there is an undercurrent of xenophobia in their teachings, and you can't be out there demanding justice and equality while embracing what the NOI teaches. It makes the people you are trying to convince second guess your true intentions: are you looking for equality under the law, or are you looking for the kind of power that would allow you to seek revenge?

I called Terry Crews a clown for making the same point (considering the demographic makeup of the US), but Stephen Jackson, DeSean, and KD liking those posts and/or doubling down on their opinions on social media are going to be held up as examples of why he may be right. That can't be good for the objectives BLM seeks to achieve.
 
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but there are so much good information out there spread by so many people, I don't feel I need to check for dude generally, plus there are other problematic aspects with ole boy
This.

People need to be strategic about this.

Remember that Rosa Parks was picked to sit on the bus, not that pregnant single girl because the civil rights activists knew just how much deflection would happen because of her condition.
 
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So many errors in this statement.

1. We discussed that many students rely on food at schools. Nothing in my proposals changes that. And I think a discussion on ensuring that those children are fed no matter the time limits are is important. That is a reasonable and very important issue. Great point.

2. Where are you getting 1%? Do you think only 1% of Americans donate to charities? That's ridiculous.

3. That isn't my assertion at all. I KNOW that people don't choose to be poor. I am interested in ideas to promote black empowerment.

If you think it is a bad idea and the status quo is better for black people, cool. We can agree to disagree. But don't pretend that my proposal is from a place of not caring about the vulnerable because it is. I think my proposal provides more help in total.

As we discussed with homelessness, there is more at play than just access to funds.
1. Children who are poor don't eat outside of school? That appears to be the statement you are making here. If they do eat outside of school, how do the 70% of families currently on SNAP get food for their kids when the term limits run out? If you are saying extend it for families, then what's the point of term limits in the first place if that constitutes 70% of the recipients?

2. About 55% of charitable contributions reported to the IRS came from those making 500K or more. So a vast majority of the contributions are coming from the 3% of people making more than 500K in this country. The 1% figure was apparently slightly understated and you took far more offense to it than you should have. Those making less than 100K a year account for about 25% of the total contributions in this country despite being 53% of the population (at least according to IRS data). So yes, the vast majority of contributions are coming from the richest americans.

3. How does taking away food empower people? By making them beg for it from churches and rich people? I don't see how getting food from a church or rich person is going to bring a larger sense of community (provided that community has churches and rich people) or how it would even be more efficient than having people who need it get it uploaded to a card each month. You can talk about empowerment all you want but this is just inhumane and will cause people to slip through the cracks not to mention the demoralizing aspect of it.

If you are going to telling me I'm making **** up or lying, I would suggest pulling statistics yourself. Your arguments are tired, lazy, lack statistics or data and frankly im getting tired of being told things provided with actual statistical basis are wrong based on your "feeling" that its incorrect. I'm getting tired of looking at the data for you. Do your own god damn research and stop presenting your feelings as ****ing facts before you respond.

Your proposal will absolutely make people worse off. We have tried it before and it didn't work. You ignore the fact that the SNAP program isn't all that old and there was a reason this program was necessary in the first place. If telling poor people to stop being poor in the 70 and 80s didn't work, it wont work now when there are even more poor people and the wealth gap is larger than its ever been.
 
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1. Children who are poor don't eat outside of school? That appears to be the statement you are making here. If they do eat outside of school, how do the 70% of families currently on SNAP get food for their kids when the term limits run out? If you are saying extend it for families, then what's the point of term limits in the first place if that constitutes 70% of the recipients?

2. About 55% of charitable contributions reported to the IRS came from those making 500K or more. So a vast majority of the contributions are coming from the 3% of people making more than 500K in this country. The 1% figure was apparently slightly overstated and you took far more offense to it than you should have. Those making less than 100K a year account for about 25% of the total contributions in this country despite being 53% of the population (at least according to IRS data). So yes, the vast majority of contributions are coming from the richest americans.

3. How does taking away food empower people? By making them beg for it from churches and rich people? I don't see how getting food from a church or rich person is going to bring a larger sense of community (provided that community has churches and rich people) or how it would even be more efficient than having people who need it get it uploaded to a card each month. You can talk about empowerment all you want but this is just inhumane and will cause people to slip through the cracks not to mention the demoralizing aspect of it.

If you are going to telling me I'm making **** up or lying, I would suggest pulling statistics yourself. Your arguments are tired, lazy, lack statistics or data and frankly im getting tired of being told things provided with actual statistical basis are wrong based on your "feeling" that its incorrect. I'm getting tired of looking at the data for you. Do your own god damn research and stop presenting your feelings as ****ing facts before you respond.

Your proposal will absolutely make people worse off. We have tried it before and it didn't work. You ignore the fact that the SNAP program isn't all that old and there was a reason this program was necessary in the first place. If telling poor people to stop being poor in the 70 and 80s didn't work, it wont work now when there are even more poor people and the wealth gap is larger than its ever been.
1. No, I said what I meant. Obviously children eat outside of school lol. You are a trip.

2. Yes, as usual you did the smooth over exaggeration.

3. The food isn't being taking away. We are talking about shifting the funding source. And the empowerment/sense of pride comes from said source. We are now seeing tons of people buying black. Dentist black, bank black, physician black, etc. I think that pouring into our own communities, in this way, strengthens our ties with each other and empowers black people. I don't know how you can be black and not understand that.

I'm not telling poor people to stop being poor or saying it is their fault. I am advancing what I think would be good for black empowerment.

But the core of your argument remains true and I can't dispute it. How I feel is up against statistics of somewhat similar proposals that didn't work as intended in the past. My only logical response is that the exact thing hasn't been tried. But I understand your argument. And I don't think it is a dumb response. In fact, I started with the fact that when RustyShackleford RustyShackleford said it, it was actually the best response. And, as you know, I defer to him on matters of the economy.
 

elpablo21

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Damn, wonder where all the proud patriots of the GOP went when a decorated Vet was in need
 
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This.

People need to be strategic about this.

Remember that Rosa Parks was picked to sit on the bus, not that pregnant single girl because the civil rights activists knew just how much deflection would happen because of her condition.
I agree with this, however that movement was about equality, yet it seems that this movement is moving far away from that, and I agree with it. This thing is now about complete freedom, moving away from the measure of equality. I do not think that there has ever been a point during our lifetime, that people are actually gearing up for battle. Peaceful protests had done nothing but taking the White Only signs down, though not destroying the infrastructure that supports white supremacy.

You cannot seek equality, as long as that system is in place. You've got to go beyond equality.
 
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First if Trump and his supporters is the bar Farrakhan gotta jump over, that reflects poorly on Farrakhan and his supporters. Also, this argument that he is not in political power so his bigotry should matter less is exactly the same argument dwalk31 dwalk31 uses to excuse Trump's racism when he speaks on the Biden's role in the crime bill. So just like with Delk, I am not sympathetic to this argument. Yes Trump's bigotry is more dangerous, but at the end of the day Farrakhan is still a bigot too.

Second, I said nothing about cancelling Farrakhan. I understand why some black folk used to and still rock with him, but I am not one of them.Sure he makes some good points, but there are so much good information out there spread by so many people, I don't feel I need to check for dude generally, plus there are other problematic aspects with ole boy. To me, the juice isn't worth the squeeze when it comes to him.
There are many reasons to not trust the Minister. One of them was his dabbling in dianetics, which I found comical. Also, there is a lacking of spiritual depth to the teachings that he espouses, as it has no connection to aspire toward, outside of Elijah Muhammad. I also understand why people may find him to be a bigot, but his bigotry is indeed justified, just as is the distrust of white people for many Black generations before him.

The man has seen things, experienced things, in other countries in regard to the battle for world domination through white supremacy. In what he says about what he has witnessed, and then how the wheel moves?

I consider his honesty above many with his world view.
 

RustyShackleford

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There are many reasons to not trust the Minister. One of them was his dabbling in dianetics, which I found comical. Also, there is a lacking of spiritual depth to the teachings that he espouses, as it has no connection to aspire toward, outside of Elijah Muhammad. I also understand why people may find him to be a bigot, but his bigotry is indeed justified, just as is the distrust of white people for many Black generations before him.

The man has seen things, experienced things, in other countries in regard to the battle for world domination through white supremacy. In what he says about what he has witnessed, and then how the wheel moves?

I consider his honesty above many with his world view.
I am sorry but there is no way I am going to believe that telling people that homosexuality is result of chemical reactions that it being spread by government scientist as a way to chemically castrate African American is justified.

Mistrust in the government maybe justified, the bigotry adding onto it is not. How should a gay black person take his words? They feel they are living as their true self and this black leader is telling them their sexuality is just a result of a secret government biological attack, or some "evil Jews" tricking them with media.

My issue with dude is that he uses valid points about racism as an entry point to spew other nonsense. I can't respect that, I can't excuse that, dude needs to do better.

Even if someone wanted to put aside the hypocrisy, conspiracy theories, and other nonsense directed at non black people, dude still indirectly ****s on a ton of innocent black people too.
 
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I am sorry but there is no way I am going to believe that telling people that homosexuality is result of chemical reactions that it being spread by government scientist as a way to chemically castrate African American is justified.

Mistrust in the government maybe justified, the bigotry adding onto it is not.

My issue with dude is that he takes uses valid points about racism as an entry point to spew other nonsense. I can't respect that, I can't excuse that, dude needs to do better.

Even if someone wanted to excuse the hypocrisy, conspiracy theories, and other nonsense directed at non black people, dude still indirectly ****s on a ton of innocent black people too.
I hear you, because I am across the street from him in many of his views. I do understand that spiritually, there are Gods and Goddesses that do not adhere to the physical laws being held here on this particular plane. The Daroga also used to use Gay men to mediate when there was beef between men and women, as it is thought that gay men encompass the energy of both male and female, so every one has a role in that society. This is why I stated that the Nation has no spiritual connection to aspire to, outside of Elijah.

With his comments toward the castration of Black males, he isn't lying. We can look at the syphilis experiments, and also the usage of Salt Peter against young Black men in the south, also in the military. Black men in the military during segregation did not eat the same cuisine as their white counterparts, as salt peter lowers your sex drive, which will control birth rates. His idea of homosexuality comes from the thought that a gay man cannot grow a nation, build one, because he does not want women. He views Lesbians the same way.

Why don't you get you a REAL man?! :lol:

His criticism of Black people truly comes from the Abrahamic/ Christian tradition of all people being born of sin, which is guilt link to bootstrap theology, of which the NOI espouses to the fullest.

I hear you though! I simply have a bit more patience with people like the Minister. Because they really, truly, do not know any other way to be. He does come off as a relic, but in seeing how the world has NOT changed? That relic does know a lot of secrets.
 
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