Joined Nov 17, 2004
I agree with a lot of what you say and a lot of what a fwe others have to say concerning this post. I've always had a love for shoes. It was the Fila Hill 2 that got me started and since then I've become more of a student and scholar. If it weren't for you, I wouldn't know half as much as I do in regards to history and performance technologies.

You've always done a great job as far as getting the information that we all crave. You give most of us a heads-up on new releases as well as your insight as to if it's worth it. Without you, myself and a lot of the rest of us, would be a little clueless as to when to drop our money for some kicks.

The bottom line of what I'm saying is this:
Both of you add a lot to the kicks community. I'm not trying to be a mediator or anything but it'd be nice to see both NT and ISS getting along. There's quite a few of us that are members of both boards. This whole thing is getting dumber by the minute. It's almost starting to feel like a fight at a family reunion. Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if anybody knows what this is about anymore outside of a few people that are airing out their opinions and taking them too personally.
"I ain't a perfect man. I'm trying to do the best that I canwith what it is I have."

Umi Says
Mos Def
Joined Feb 18, 2005


Joined Oct 26, 2003
Quote:[hr][/hr]i understand that totally CowboyDM.

In essence the threads that are there are just like this ONE here so it isn't really fair ta say "This is exactly why we don't allow the NT vs. ISS threads that NT embraces." NT doesn't embrace them anymore than iss. Most people here are saddened or even disgusted that this happened at all. Just like the mod who wanted ta lock the thread at iss. He doesn't want it there but he deals with it. It's the same for most of us here. Like most the posts here aren't cheerin on this conflict, shoeheads against shoeheads just hurts everyone.[hr][/hr]
Yeah, I'm with you 100% on some of this. But, the fact that Method Man is still making essay-worthy replies complete with personal attacks in this thread tells me something...being an Administrator, I wish at this point the topic was locked and that people from both sides would realize how bad this had gotten and take a step back like I said. It has come to my attention that this issue is now useless - I'm not sure if anyone is with me, but I really don't think that anything will be solved regarding this issue in the near future. The beef that members parade around between the boards will exist no matter what it seems. There are things that can be done to at least lessen the "rivalry" (that members seem to think is necessary to the existence of both boards), but alas, it seems that we are far from any end to this type of stuff. I just wish the issue was snuffed as it is or at least dealt privately, its almost childish at this point.

Quote:[hr][/hr]i was pretty involved in that thread myself. But i did actually PM a staff member first ta make sure what i was sayin and doin(which was pretty harsh)was allowed and accepted. He said yes so i went all out. His only purpose there was ta spread hate between brands and people and boards and i saw a chance ta speak my mind and i quite enjoyed it.[hr][/hr]
Yeah, see, at the point where you were posting, there was and is no point in locking that thread...its a joke now, no one seemed to take it very seriously in the first place (look at the first couple replies) and its a dead issue. It turned into personal beef, which is what that forum is for anyways. So it seemed useless to actually lock the thread - where as a thread like this one I would view as detrimental to the sneakerhead community at large, that thread was never a serious issue at all. No members leaving and several personal attacks on each other, which is what this has ballooned into. Like you said, there are a lot of things that have gone wrong in this thread, and I'd attribute the majority of it to people putting words in other's mouths, miscommunications, and just this thought that some sort of rivalry must exist. I really wish we would move on, like Steve suggested pages back, but no one seems to want that in this thread.

Quote:[hr][/hr]the only question left is who stops first now?[hr][/hr]
Since this is in the power of a few individuals with administrator status here at NT, I'll leave the decision up to them, but they have the power to end this pitiful thread at any time if they'd like.

Quote:[hr][/hr]It's like a car wreck. You can't help but look. But yeah like big said, you should stick around. Maybe you'll like it here. Maybe it'll show other people that the staffs of each respective board can actually get along.[hr][/hr]
Its sad but this type of topic makes me want to stay away....I know that many NTers are cool, but after the attacks made on the board at which I'm an Administrator at, I really don't feel welcome here. Maybe Meth's thoughts don't reflect the majority of NT, but then I wonder why he got all his "e-props" after one of his responses. I do check NT but not that often, usually because I don't have time. Unfortunately, this thread seems to divide the boards even alienates members and from a personal standpoint, I don't think I'd be welcome here. I just thought I'd post to try to mediate between the boards. But again, these are just my personal thoughts, and don't reflect the thoughts of others at ISS or anywhere else. Just my $0.02.

(From the "Sour Grapes message board")
Joined Jul 19, 2004
Wow.....thanks for the link. Interesting......

Too bad nike rather focus on someone selling AUTHENTIC products on ebay than selling fake products on ebay >D

Quote:[hr][/hr]I don't think I'd be welcome here.[hr][/hr]
EVERYBODY is welcome here. We have almost 40,000 members here. As long as you follow the roc, its all good. :smokin

For Trade or Sale: DS Olympic VII retro size 12: Looking To Trade For DS X Retro Steey Greys size 12 or 12.5 ezinbox me or email me

Methodical Management

Staff member
Joined Dec 8, 1999
Quote:[hr][/hr]Or if meth continued takin the high road and ignorin his post like he did at first.[hr][/hr]
Thats how I wouldve liked it to end, too, but at a certain point you have to stand up for yourself. Imagine youre sitting down at a restaurant or club and someone throws his drink on you and your friends on their way out. Some people would ignore it and try to turn the other cheek. Some people would stand up for themselves, but do little more. Some people would pull a Sir Charles and chuck the fool through a plate glass window.

How many times would you let it happen before you stood up and defended yourself?

Im just a man. Honestly, I couldnt care less at this point whether cyjack respects me or not. However, at a certain point I couldnt just sit back and allow him to talk recklessly about me, about my friends, and about the community that weve built together with our fellow sneaker fans over the course of five long years. At a certain point, I had to let Steve know, you know what? Its NOT all good. If you say you respect the community, if you say you respect the staff, you dont just drop that respect at the door each time you leave. Hes been fronting on here for years. The book was overdue so the card got pulled.

Quote:[hr][/hr] Look, the reason I'm responding is because you're calling me and someone I know to be a good, damn hard working person liars and claiming that we do what we do for nothing more than the almighty dollar.[hr][/hr]
I didnt have to call Steve a liar. His own conflicting statements demonstrated his duplicity.

I didnt have to call Steve exploitive. His longstanding business practices more than suffice.

Its funny, because when Bastitch went on the ISS board to express his personal thoughts on the matter, you claimed that I was his pimp and acted as though he were there to do my dirty work. (Classy stuff.) Well, now youre back on a board you said youd never return to, doggedly defending your benefactor and assailing upon my integrity. No, thats not hypocrisy

If you wanted to leave NT, you couldve just leapt over to ISS, where an admin title safely awaited you, at any time. No one on our staff wouldve said a thing. In fact, Id wager that hardly anyone on NikeTalk would even notice. But no, before you left you decided it would be fun to burn the bridge, to make it personal and attack my character.

As has been mentioned by JohnnyBlazeNYC:

You dont bite the hand that feeds you. You dont defecate where you sleep.
Now all that backbitings gonna get you bitten back.

You guys have insulted the NikeTalk community as a whole and issued personal attacks against myself and other NikeTalk staff members. Why, at this point, you feel you deserve our continued patronage is beyond all reason.

You set out on a mission to vilify me, but look who really got exposed in this post. (bring it back) Its not Method Man!

So you know, the reason I implied that you might be a little too concerned with the folks in Beaverton was the result of your little obsessive Star Trek fan routine in the 5.5 post. That post, to me, came across as a rebuke of everything you USED to be about. Its comical that someone who ran a fan site to post amateur sneaker reviews as his own expense could call other people who deeply care about shoes obsessive losers. Its amazing that someone can call NikeTalk a bully pulpit vis--vis Kicksology which wasnt about a community, but a shrine erected to house one fans opinions on sneakers. Oh, but was your goal to also educate and enlighten ignorant fans re: technology and performance? No, thats not a paternalistic aim.

Bully pulpit, says the man who created a site to criticize sneakers, a site used to gleefully shred products like the Reebok Answer (designed, Im sure, by a warm, genial professional with a family whose feelings you so savagely hurt) to ribbons? What were your proposed solutions for that product, by the way? Granted I was never a frequent visitor, but I seem to recall more complaint than suggestion.

Nevertheless, you, a self-professed critic, decided to come at me and many of my fellow sneaker fans crooked to try your damnedest to separate yourself from sneaker nerds like us (no, thats not elitist..) and then, to cap it all off, actually advise Jordan brand (as though theyre hanging on your every word.. and you think I have a lofty opinion of myself..) that Jordan brand should give us a collective see ya, to speak as if on Jordans behalf and claim that were enemy rather than friend.

When I give my two cents on a product, its not supposed to be personal. If thats somehow managed to offend someone within the industry, its not my intent. My email address is published with every post I submit. I would welcome the opportunity to elaborate on any criticism I offer, and the extent of that criticism ONLY goes as deep as the product. Again, I guess its just easier to hate than to ask why.

I didnt take that shortcut. Ive tried to find out what Ive done to warrant so much spite, but all Im hearing from you is nonsensical jabbering about a messiah complex that really seems to be the result of misinterpretation. When I say, we need people to stick up for sneaker fans, I dont mean that sneaker fans need a savior. I mean that we as a community need to look out for one another like we used to, rather than try to climb OVER each other to vie for the affection of those within the industry, or wring one another for profit.

If you think Im more liberal with my criticism than I used to be:

1) Youre not looking at the big picture, because I ALWAYS criticized Jordan/Nike where appropriate. Ive been insulting Nike retros crossover attempts for years. I made fun of the 17 wear tests like everyone else. I hated the 17 price and made no secret of it (and I stood by it, refusing to pay retail for the shoe unlike those whose views softened.)

2) Its because, as Ive stated, I made a conscious decision to resist the temptation to pander to Nike/Jordan merely to spare someones feelings. I feel thats counterproductive. NikeTalk should house GENUINE consumer opinions. It shouldnt be a place merely to shepherd consumers. Its not Nikes marketing tool, its OUR community as fans.

Last year, I passed along information directly from Jordan brand that I thought the fans would like to hear, such as the nubuck 12 explanation, and I phrased it in a way that wouldnt betray my contacts trust and would accurately convey their side of the story. From that, perhaps people saw me as Jordan brands advocate. During that time, as Ive admitted, I probably was a bit more patient with Jordan brand because I had more faith in their direction than I do currently. Even so, go back and look at the Nubuck 12 post. Its right there in the archives forum. I roundly criticized the launch.

If my tone has shifted somewhat, its because I recognized that my loyalty belongs to my friends and fellow sneaker fans here on NikeTalk. I decided that I dont want to be a mouthpiece for Jordan brand, no matter what respect it endows, because whats respect from others if you cant respect yourself? Ive always tried to be honest here, because theres no reason for me to do otherwise. This place exists for fans, not companies. I honestly dont like the direction Jordan brand has been moving in recently, and I choose to speak with MY OWN VOICE. I didnt like the laser iv pack, either and I wasnt shy about that. Somehow, though, I dont think well catch an editorial on it in YOUR voice.

Its not uncommon. Im sure its just coincidence that every single article in the history Slam magazine sung the praises of featured NBA players, and Im sure itll just be coincidence that unlike on NikeTalk we wont see any features in Sole Collector where you guys bite the hands that feed you.

Sole Collectors all about fans as long as their interests intersect. There may be some articles that you or Alex may WANT to write that, for political reasons, youre unable to. Thats something youll have to live with, but dont try to tell me that its operated purely in the best interests of fans. Steves not trying to break even, after all.

Quote:[hr][/hr]The difference between your criticisms and mine, Meth, is that mine are based on actual experiences with the products -- the vast majority of which I've bought with my own money -- as opposed to fuzzy camera phone snaps.[hr][/hr]
Not all of us have that luxury. With hundreds of basketball shoes to choose from, I certainly dont think fans should have to settle for a product thats repugnant. Complaining about a shoes appearance during the pre-production phase COULD be constructive. At that point, at least theres time to change the product to make it more appealing. Form should follow function, but it is still a fashion item. Aesthetics count. So, when someone displays the latest sample shoe Im supposed to lock the post? NOBODY SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE SHOE! ITS NOT DONE AND THATS NOT FAIR. This is NikeTALK. What we see, we discuss. If all we have to go on is looks, then thats what well discuss. I bet things are the same over on ISS right down to the same pictures. You act like what happened with the 5.5 was something new and shocking weve been talking about preproduction shoes since Air Jordan XIV-XVI were first displayed as SKETCHES.

You seem to think that my observations about your discernable change in stance of late are the result of vindictiveness.

Why is it, then, that all these people who scarcely know me and have no particular attachment to me (read: theyve never called themselves friends, never sent me an email offering praise, never received my help or kind words) see in you a change so eerily similar to what I see?

Its just interesting that suddenly, after 5 years of discussing preproduction pictures (I hated on the XVII weartest shots, too. That was a pair of dogged weartests, a far cry from the actual product. The 5.5 just endured a few tweaks in comparison.) things changed in November with the 5.5 Its just interesting that suddenly, after 5 years of participating on NikeTalk without issue, you suddenly created an account with ISS and gained admin status. Its just interesting that suddenly, after years of respecting your fellow sneaker fans, youre up on a soap box telling Jordan brand not to listen to these same fans that theyre Jordan brands enemies (wait, who was that saying if youre not with me then youre my enemy) comparing them to Star Trek fans, implying that we should get a life (and yet shoes arent the basis of our livelihood).

Its just interesting that suddenly, after 5 years, the same people you used to stand alongside are now the same ones youre trying to face head on.

The sad thing is, you think that all of US got turned around and youre the only one who stayed in place.

Maybe thats something to think about before dashing out another insulting final reply.

Maybe thats something to think about before saying more terrible things about me than you could hope to rescind.

Maybe thats something to think about the next time you sit down to pen a glowing review of that new retro inspired basketball shoe that utterly fails to push the envelope in any meaningful way, but happened to have been designed by someone youre now on a first name basis with.

Quote:[hr][/hr]If you want to judge me, judge me by what I've done and continue to do -- not what someone tells you you should think about me and my actions.[hr][/hr]
At least we can agree on that (so you can stop trying in vain to portray me as something my actions clearly contradict now.) At the end of the day, actions speak louder than words.

You keep on selling.
Well keep on sharing.

Joined Mar 14, 2004
meth... i always enjoy reading what you write. always well presented, detailed, thought provoking, relevant, and concise.

ok - scratch concise. heh.

anyways, good job on this site - to you and your fellow admins. i know its a lot of work, and better you guys doing it than me!

i've always been a fan of cyjack's work, but am a bit disappointed by his actions. well, i just hope your vision doesn't get too clouded by $... i'm still not sure why you needed a dramatic exit off of NT - trying to play pied piper and lead the mice to ISS? really, was the parting shot necessary?
- not that there's anything wrong with that -

promoting conspicuous consumption.

ever since honeys was wearing sassoon


Staff member
Joined Apr 24, 2004
Quote:[hr][/hr]Sole Collectors all about fans as long as their interests intersect. There may be some articles that you or Alex may WANT to write that, for political reasons, youre unable to. Thats something youll have to live with, but dont try to tell me that its operated purely in the best interests of fans. Steves not trying to break even, after all. [hr][/hr]



Joined Mar 27, 2004
this thread holds the record for the most 5+ paragraph posts. it's obvious that people's opinions aren't really going to change. people have spoken what's on their mind and i think we're just going in circles now.

i agree with most of what methodman's said except for his criticism of prof k's site ("a site used to gleefully shred products like the Reebok Answer").

regardless, niketalk is here for the thousands of members, not for method man or cyjack or steve or any individual. given that this thread has become about individuals, i say we lock it or archive it. the fact is that each one of us is here on niketalk because of the niketalk community, and the personal differences of individuals should not be the focus. it's unfortunate that the NT vs. ISS lines have been drawn this way.

"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." ~ Socrates
Ben Gordon - 2004-2005 6th Man of the Year​

b1lly hoyle

Joined Jan 23, 2005
That last Meth post was 5 pages in Word unformatted... :wow:

I feel bad for the NCAA investigator who has to read through this post... |I

Can't we all just get along?
Joined Dec 9, 1999

Wow. Been away for the better part of a week and come back to all this? Just sat down and read the last 4 pages or so...and all I can say is...

Can't we all just get along?

I mean, I'm not one for internet bickering. Heck, I'm not one for bickering period. My priorities have changed in the last few months, but the love of sneakers is still there. I love my job and hope everyone digs Sole Collector. I love Niketalk and am proud of everything that's gone on here in the last 5+ years. I love my sneakers and still search for that elusive shoe for my collection.

Everyone has good points on here, and I have my thoughts as well, but instead of just fueling fires, I'm calling for peace. Is NT vs. ISS really the point? Has the love of sneakers diminished somewhat because of all the hype and prices? Honestly, I am a bit tired of all the media hype and reselling and shadiness too, until this past week in Hawaii. At the SC x NT competition, it was nice to chat with sneakerheads that were really into it and loved talking about shoes. It was nice to connect with what brought me into sneakers in the first place. Sitting around talking about sneakers. To some out there, it was about winning. To some, it was about seeing new stuff and having a good time, and that was where I was too. I honestly geeked out at Krabby's Nitetraks. I was wowed by the Talib Kweli Trainers. I brought out the FULL Air Pressure display and was glad people dug on it. And for those who didn't, I was more than happy to gush about the Air Pressure and showcase the complete suit (avec chapeau!) Many thanks to Adam for that rock bro. I was more out there to have a good time with my girlfriend and get away from the sneaker mess, but it was nice chatting with folks who love talking about Jordans...I missed that actually. Just sitting around and talking about shoes without pretenses and actually enjoying the shoes on sale and on display. The Prestos were AMAZING, and I'm happy some people dug them, although a few resellers were there too...but I felt it was a great event, and Hawaii really had some cool people out there. And the Niketown staff was EXCELLENT. It was such a smooth event, and the bidding...
It was just a great event, and I had a good time. Made me remember why I love sneakers so much.

Well, that's how I saw it at least. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age, but I don't have time to argue anymore. You ask me about Method Man, I will tell you he is a good guy. You ask me about Professor K, I will tell you he is a good guy. You ask me about Steve, I will tell you he is a good guy. Not because I'm saying it to say it, but because I have spent quality time with each of them, and they are good people. I've said it before, I've met so many cool people in the hobby, and I still look forward to meeting new and cool people in the hobby.

Yes, there are problems in our hobby, but I am trying to help fix them. Sneakers have become like anything else in the world...there are politics, agendas, shadiness, bottom lines, whatever you want to add in. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying we can look past it and try to all get along. I'm proud of my work on Sole Collector. I'm proud of my work here on NT. I'm also proud of my work in general, trying to be a good person.

I know, sounds too easy, right? But I believe it 100%.
. Everyone has thrown jabs and hooks, but I'm not even in the ring. Heck, the arena even. I'm at home playing Final Fantasy X and surfing ebay for sneakers. Everyone can point a finger and hold someone else accountable, or say what he/she has done/has not done. All I know is I'm accountable for my own actions, and I believe in what I believe in. I don't try to be someone I'm not, because that's just not really how I operate. I will be a positive role model for anyone in this hobby. I am always approachable, and talk with anyone that talks to me. (I try my BEST to email everyone back...but it gets hectic sometimes). I smile and say hi and am excited about my hobby and my job. Anywho, that's about it...sorry if it didn't make any sense, been up for too long and plane rides across the ocean aren't that cool...

Hope everyone is having a great week.


Jocelyn = Dopeness on a stick.
Niketalk Rules of Conduct
Website: RETROKID! / SoleCollector
W.T.B.B. Indeed.
Joined Jun 19, 2006
Thank you Alex. Maybe they will read your post, because mine was a wee bit more simplified and overlooked. This crap needs to stop from both sides. Lock it, delete it, archive it, whatever, but don't post up about how one person is better than the other and vice-versa. That ain't what this is about.

Quote:[hr][/hr]to have a good time with my girlfriend[hr][/hr]
What a bragger ... sheesh :rolleyes


p.s. :lol:
, just playing Alex. Glad things have changed.
Restoring order to the Shoe
the Unexpected​
Joined Dec 9, 1999

Wait a second. Last time I checked, you HAVE a girlfriend. A pretty nice one, at that.

And I'll give you a call this week, new shoes coming in!


But yeah, I'll just say it again for good measure. Heck, I'll even add italics and bold just for effect.

Can't we all just get along?


Jocelyn = Dopeness on a stick.
Niketalk Rules of Conduct
Website: RETROKID! / SoleCollector
W.T.B.B. Indeed.
Joined Nov 2, 2004
Thank you, JumpmanSt.

Like someone else said, how did a post about how a dude got fired from his work turn into a war of message boards? None of this is needed. This is the last thing the sneaker community needs at this point in time - division.

I hope everyone can make amends and patch up their relationships.
Joined Apr 24, 2003
"chris chicago, that's almost exactly what I wrote in my review of the XIX that was published in the last issue of the magazine"

My apologies. I didnt see that review. And I didnt write the thing about making your departure more accepting.

I think everybody here hopes you stay, I'd guess even Method Man. The thread where you two argued about the pods on the XXs was one of the best written.

Kind of silly how a fondness for gym shoes is behind this whole soap opera.
Joined Oct 19, 2004
the NT vs ISS title on this thread aint helpin

some of you guys know each other and have history (good history), dont let it go down like this.



Staff member
Joined Apr 30, 2004
flight23air:[hr][/hr]the NT vs ISS title on this thread aint helpin

some of you guys know each other and have history (good history), dont let it go down like this.
chitown4eva:[hr][/hr]way to contribute to the peace by uppin this dead thread
First thing I thought when I saw this title on Page 1 again.

Everyone's basically made their point, and everyone who was gonna take it probably did. And those who were gonna be resilient about their stance are probably no more convinced now than at the beginning of the thread.

Jerry's Final Thought: They're shoes. Some have one pair. A pair they bought many years ago. We ... have a different set of standards for our shoes. Both websites are about fulfilling our insatiable appetite for footwear, though both feed us in different manner. Let the differences exist without competition. The competition between the two sites reminds of two teams wanting to play a game by different rules. NT and ISS are different. Which one is better? Neither. Both.

<>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> 23ska for short <<<<<<<[/b]
(Chick Hearn page from I grew up going mainly to ANGELS and LAKERS games, but I will ALWAYS cheer for my wife's home team (UK WILDCATS) and ALL the rest of MY home teams (SPARKS, XTREME, CLIPPERS, PADRES, DUCKS, TROJANS, CHARGERS, AVENGERS, DODGERS, BRUINS, KINGS, GALAXY).​

teamwhit eboy

Joined Nov 1, 2004
^ what a great book...and i had to make a class video about it in 11th grade... :lol:

Yeah this needs to be locked though... |I



Joined Dec 23, 1999
Greetings to all:

This is one thread where I believe I wouldn't get "stonefaced" for asking for cliffnotes.

But, I did read a good majority of it.

Although, I really don't have a solid opinion on this matter, I must say I believe the whole thing is a bit childish. This isn't directed to any single individual. I am saying this topic in general is a bit childish.

I really wouldn't have expected this to come from some of the more respected names in the scene. I am shocked that the main people who are involved in this thread are some of the top names, you all should be ashamed of yourselves. There isn't an internet railroad track, where if you visit an internet message board on the wrong side of the track you are considered hated on the other side.

You've all gone bananas if you ask me. Too much "new shoe smell" in your rooms. You can get a hefty buzz off of a new shoe smell. Especially the Jordan XIV. Tire Rubber kills the nasal cavities.

If you support NT, good for you. If you support ISS, good for you. There are pros and cons to both boards, and moderators.

Mark my words, someone will come along and start something better than NT and ISS. (Not me) It is only a matter of time before it happens. Sam Walton did it when he started Wal-Mart, and one day someone will come along and replace Wal-Mart. In the words of George Strait "All good things must end, all rivers have to bend."

If I have hurt anyone personally in this post, just call my lawyer.

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